Season 5 Recap – Where We’ve Been and Where We’re Going

Connect with Dwight:

• 
• dwight.brown@salary.com

Connect with David:

• 
• 
• david.turetsky@salary.com

Podcast Manager, Karissa Harris:

• HRDataLabs@salary.com

 

Production by Affogato Media

Resources:

• Salary.com Consulting Services
• HR Data Labs Season 6 Episode 1
• HR Data Labs Season 5 Episode 24

• “The fast forward that [ChatGPT] put companies like Microsoft into—we're gonna see some tangible changes to the [Human Resources] landscape, even within the next six months. I can't say exactly what those will be, but I do think that we're gonna start to feel it in our technology.”
• “All those states that are tangentially affected right now because they don't have [pay transparency] laws but their neighboring states do, I think they're gonna start to get on it and implement some pay transparency laws.”

Announcer: 0:02

Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology.Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record, pour their discussions into a beaker, mix thoroughly.And viola, you get the HR Data Labs podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent,that count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here's your host, David Turetsky.

 

David Turetsky: 0:46

Hello, and welcome to episode 125 of the HR Data Labs podcast. I am your host, David Turetsky along with my co-host, Dwight Brown. Hey,Dwight!

 

Dwight Brown: 0:56

David, how are you?

 

David Turetsky: 0:59

I'm awesome. How are you?

 

Dwight Brown: 1:01

I'm good. I am happy to be at this episode. I mean, can you believe it's been this long?

 

David Turetsky: 1:08

I cannot. We're almost up to three years doing this.

 

Dwight Brown: 1:12

I know!

 

David Turetsky: 1:13

And who thought we were gonna get to 125episodes?

 

Dwight Brown: 1:18

I'm not sure either of us thought. Then again, we were we had the vision.

 

David Turetsky: 1:23

We did. But we also had very low expectations as well. So

 

Dwight Brown: 1:27

Exactly. Just in case they didn't pan out.

 

David Turetsky: 1:31

Yeah, right.Right. There's always a there's always a side business. Oh, this was a side business, it was a hobby. But it's really been been a very fun hobby. And I think what we're going to attempt to do today, and because everybody knows what we do at the end of every season is we look back at the season that was, we talk about the season that will be ahead, and we also talk about our predictions, and we review our predictions for from the last six months. And we talked about our predictions for the next six months. And that's one of our fun parts of doing these season ending episodes. But before we get there, Dwight,what's the one thing? And of course they've heard this many times, but what's the one thing no one knows about Dwight?

 

Dwight Brown: 2:16

Oh, I didn't think of that.

 

David Turetsky: 2:18

Come on. You gotta come up with something new. We know you're a thrill seeker.

 

Dwight Brown: 2:22

Did I talked before about doing selling polished rocks as a kid. Does that want to ring a bell with

 

David Turetsky: 2:28

I don't remember you ever saying that you sold you?polished rocks? It does track though.

 

Dwight Brown: 2:34

Yeah. So I mean,you know me, I'm, I'm kind of a renaissance man, I get involved in a lot of different things.

 

David Turetsky: 2:41

Yes, you are.

 

Dwight Brown: 2:42

So the yeah, when I was when I was a kid, I got fascinated with rocks. And so my parents bought me a rock polisher. And now if you know anything about polishing rocks,you know that it's not exactly an energy efficient kind of thing. Because we put the rocks in this little rubber thing that then went on this motor that spun it for, I think, six weeks at a time or something like that, yeah tumbler. Exactly. And so I do all these polished rocks. And then we had a, we had an outdoor theater by our place that always had a Saturday Sunday flea market. So I'd go down to this flea market, and I'd sell my polished rocks. And that's that's how I supplemented my allowance.

 

David Turetsky: 3:28

Wow.

 

Dwight Brown: 3:29

Didn't pay for my college that way. But I, you know.

 

David Turetsky: 3:32

Hey, it was something.

 

Dwight Brown: 3:34

Right, exactly.

 

David Turetsky: 3:35

It's great, it got you to think like an entrepreneur.

 

Dwight Brown: 3:38

Yeah, exactly. My first foray into the business world.

 

David Turetsky: 3:42

There you go.

 

Dwight Brown: 3:43

So about you? Your turn!

 

David Turetsky: 3:46

I'm an open book. People know a lot about me. So let's see. So well, I published a book for the first time. And you may know about this, because I think you've received a copy. We had created a comic called the HR Data Doodles that was a companion to the HR Data Labs podcast for a while when we were Turetsky Consulting. And the doodles I think we had 21 episodes of doodles. And what I did was I compiled them into a basically a graphic novel, and just self published that and it's available on Amazon. We're actually starting the sale of it on August 4, which coincides with the Boston FanExpo. And so this was my first foray. And I gotta be honest with you, it was stressful. But it was a lot of fun. And if you want a copy before August 4, you can go to HRdatalabs.com, the companion site, it's available there and if you want, I'll sign one for you, but otherwise, we're going to go on sale from Amazon on August 4.

 

Dwight Brown: 4:47

So for those of you who are oriented toward the book collecting world, this is definitely collectible, because HR data doodles is no more so.

 

David Turetsky: 4:58

Well. I mean now now that it's been published,there potentially could be an episode or other sets of episodes now.

 

Dwight Brown: 5:07

Okay.

 

David Turetsky: 5:08

But it but it's a hobby. It's not part of my work.

 

Dwight Brown: 5:10

Right. But even so the pilot season, or the pilot initiative with HR Data Doodles is over. So it's almost having a first edition versus the second or third.

 

David Turetsky: 5:23

Definitely a first edition. Yeah. Published the first edition. So you know,if there is a second edition,it'll definitely be, it'll definitely be news to me,because I have to write it. But yeah. So no, but it's possible now. So we'll see. So that's my news is that I published for the first time. So now I have an Amazon Author page, and yay, all that great stuff.

 

Dwight Brown: 5:45

Nice.

 

David Turetsky: 5:54

So let's transition to our topic, which is this is episode 125. And we're going to now go look through all of the wonderful episodes we had during Season Five and Dwight, we started off with a bang with Tara Furiani,Not the HR Lady. For those of you who don't know Tara, she's a powerhouse, she's a hero, she's supermom, she is just one of those people from the CHRO perspective, that is completely honest, open about struggles in life and, and everything of everything. And being very honest, she is an extremely brave human being. And again,she's a hero to me, I, I look up to her for all the things that she does and says and is. She is a genuine human being.

 

Dwight Brown: 6:44

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 6:44

And we had a wonderful conversation with her.

 

Dwight Brown: 6:46

Oh, it was such a fun conversation with her. Yes,it was somewhat unscripted,which is nice, was partially scripted. But we went off script some.

 

David Turetsky: 6:57

We did.

 

Dwight Brown: 6:58

It was it added to the richness of it. And I, you know, I feel the same way that you do about her. I just think she's an amazing human being.She talks openly about her struggles. And that's a hard quality to find in a person. We just had fun on the episode, it was blast.

 

David Turetsky: 7:16

We really did.And then after that, because Too much.it's a hard act to follow. After that, we had a series of I recorded that.episodes that were recorded at the HR tech 2022 conference. And if I say that we had one, we actually had 16 or 17 episodes recorded at the HR tech 2022event in Las Vegas. And we

 

Dwight Brown: 7:38

Good qualifier.struggled to get all of them into season five, because there were just so many. And by the way, when I returned from Vegas,I was exhausted not because I was staying out late and partying and whatnot. I wasn't,too much.

 

David Turetsky: 8:02

Yeah, I admit to it. But it was just exhausting,because we had so many wonderful conversations. And the first one, the one that really led everything off that was really wonderful is that we were interviewing with the sapien insights group. And that's Terri zipper, Susan Richards and Sheryl Herle. And it was just a phenomenal conversation about the things they learned from their 2022 HR tech survey. And it was a wonderful conversation.It's always great talking to them. And Terri Zipper is a longtime friend of mine. But that was really kind of the kickoff of that series. And it was a wonderful kickoff. From there. We had really great conversations with Tim Sackett.And then we also spoke to my friend Bennett Sung about what's going on in the world of emerging technologies in ATS,and recruiting systems, because there are so much that's happening in that world. And then the other one that was along that same line was Maya Huber, from the perspective of utilizing competencies and how that comes into being able to find the right people and using that in the ATS world as well.I'd love to get Dwight's perspective on this. But unfortunately, Dwight didn't go to the conference. He didn't go to HR tech 2022. So it was just me. That was really a bummer.

 

Dwight Brown: 9:23

I did not. David and I were commenting before this before we got on air here,that as I was looking back at the season. I was looking at the episodes and going I barely was on any of this just because there wasn't an HR Tech and we had so many HR Tech episodes.

 

David Turetsky: 9:39

We did, we did.

 

Dwight Brown: 9:39

So I feel like I'm a stranger now to the podcast.

 

David Turetsky: 9:43

Oh you're not a stranger. You're my partner in this! But here's the other thing. What we tried to do is we also tried to drip in other episodes like we talked to Joe Phoenix about charitable giving and making charitable giving part of the Employee Benefits package. We also talked to and I don't think you were there for this Karen Buchbinder from Salary.com. And it talks about using Excel for compensation purposes. And we called that one death by spreadsheet. But then back to the HR Tech, we had then many weeks in a row of HR Tech2022. And then we finally got another one, which was an awesome conversation with Representative Fluker Oakley and Representative Cutler from Massachusetts talking about their bill 1849, which is the introduction of pay transparency in Massachusetts. And Dwight, I don't think you were on that one either, were you?

 

Dwight Brown: 10:33

No, I wasn't, but pay transparency.

 

David Turetsky: 10:35

I see a pattern here, Dwight?

 

Dwight Brown: 10:37

Quiet quitting,right?

 

David Turetsky: 10:39

Yeah, exactly.We're gonna get to that, we're gonna get to that.

 

Dwight Brown: 10:43

No but pay transparency, it's amazing how much that is just rocketed into the public discourse over the last year and a half, two years.It's been there, there have been rumblings of it. But it is absolutely amazing. Especially,you know, and I'm sure a lot of this is driven by the legislation that's out there.

 

David Turetsky: 11:03

Absolutely.Well, just to kind of bring up that point. If I look back at the other series, if I look back at the episodes through season three and season four, I don't think we had one episode in all of that time that focused specifically on pay transparency. But in this series, in this season, we at least had three or four that had their primary focus on pay transparency. So you know,you're right, I think has come on strong. And especially from the perspective of you know,this is now law in many states,right. So we're going to be talking about transparency for quite some time. In fact, by the time this airs, I will have spoken at SHRM on pay transparency and some of the unintended consequences of pay transparency. And hopefully,we're gonna get that recording and be able to put it on the podcast for next season.

 

Dwight Brown: 12:00

That will be a good one.

 

David Turetsky: 12:01

Yeah, yeah.Well, actually, we had one this year. Again, one, you also weren't on as well, sorry dude,that I recorded my pay transparency presentation that it was called pay transparency's benefits and challenges. And I recorded that at the Meeting of the Minds ADPs meeting of the minds in March of this year. So yeah, I mean, it is it's definitely something that not only have we been talking about it, but we're going to continue to talk about it, either as the focus of the episode, or at least part of an episode going forward.

 

Dwight Brown: 12:32

Yeah, there's so much going on. I mean, just some of the projects that we're working on right now with clients and the struggles that they're having with it. It's, I mean, it's gonna continue to be at the forefront for us, and probably more so.

 

David Turetsky: 12:47

Totally agree. I mean, just like we started talking about DEI, maybe in season three, with more effort.I think Season Three was really the DEI season, where I think we may have had six or seven that just focus specifically on DEI.And then, you know, in season four, we had probably another four or five, this season, if I'm not mistaken, we had at least four, that focus specifically. And I know for next season, we have plenty that focus on DEI and one of those things that we're going to be talking about as we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging is how that fits into the world of pay and pay transparency and the unintended consequences of our programs and policies that call into question, how we treat people,whether we treat people differently or not. So I think that's going to be a thread through all those conversations.

 

Dwight Brown: 13:43

Yeah, absolutely.I mean, hey, DEI and pay transparency are inextricably linked to each other. And I'm not sure that everybody fully understands that, but it will be good to kind of walk down that road and be able to start to call out what those linkages are the positives and the pitfalls that go with

 

David Turetsky: 14:00

Absolutely. And also how it gets measured,right? How we set goals around it, and how it gets measured as to the outcomes and the consequences. So those will all be part of it. I think one of the other things we talked about moreso this season, season five,than we've talked about in the past are competencies and skills, and how that has intertwined into the descriptions that we use to help employees understand what they're supposed to be doing. Or at least measuring what kind of skills do employees have and what do we need? So I think we've talked about that a lot this season. And hopefully we'll continue that next year,especially when it comes to the recruiting story and the DEI story.

 

Announcer: 14:42

Like what you hear so far? Make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe. This podcast is made possible by Salary.com. Now back to the show.

 

David Turetsky: 14:54

Let's transition to season six and talk about a little bit about what we have ahead of us. So we definitely have DEI because we're going to be talking to a few authors and a few thought leaders in the world of DEI, we've already recorded some episodes with those folks. And some of them are highly emotionalized. And some are just fascinating conversations. But then we get into the season of the conference. So we're going to SHRM in June, we're going to World at Work in June, we're going to be recording some episodes from both of those conferences. And then we get into our favorite, which is the HR Technology Conference in Las Vegas. And then we're going to be recording there as well. And so we'll be talking to, you know, the thought leaders in the space like Al Adamsen and Ian Cook and Jason Averbook and Chris Havrilla and then some of the others that we have become very close friends with like Tim Sackett. And we're going to try and get you kind of the latest thinking as to what's happening in the world. And so that'll probably take us through the end of season six, and probably into season seven, as well. So we're really looking forward to having some really interesting,fascinating, wonderful conversations at those conferences. And, you know,we've said this before, and hopefully, if you can, please send us your ideas of what you'd like to hear in the upcoming season, in season six. Of course, season six will be our three year anniversary. I think the first episode debuted August sorry, it was October 1 2020.

 

Dwight Brown: 16:31

Do I have to buy roses for our anniversary?

 

David Turetsky: 16:33

No, no, just the thought that mattered, Dwight.You know what you could do? You can go to HRdatalabs.com and by me something.

 

Dwight Brown: 16:42

Oh, there we go.Buy you some nice swag.

 

David Turetsky: 16:44

Yeah, merch from the merch store.

 

Dwight Brown: 16:47

The you're on mute cup.

 

David Turetsky: 16:50

I mean, the one that I'm holding up right now that says HR data labs, you are on mute.

 

Dwight Brown: 16:54

That is my absolute favorite cup of all time.

 

David Turetsky: 16:58

Did I ever send you one?

 

Dwight Brown: 16:59

No. But now we're gonna go on HR Data Labs and buy one!

 

David Turetsky: 17:04

HRdatalabs.com.That's HRdatalabs.com. You don't have to go there. It would be nice if you did. There's a lot of fun stuff up there. But

 

Dwight Brown: 17:12

Oh, yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 17:13

So that that also brings up the fact that during season six, we're also going to be at the Boston Fan Expo, August 4th through 6th selling the HR Data Doodles book, as well as selling a bunch of merch from the merch store,and some of the fun stuff like the dog leash hangers, and some of the other stuff that we do.So that's not a prediction that's actually going to happen.

 

Dwight Brown: 17:36

We bought a booth,it's definite. I was gonna say you don't get credit for a prediction on that one.

 

David Turetsky: 17:41

No, no, that's not a prediction. That's next.That's coming up next. So as you all know, one of the things and this is what Dwight's bring up,what we do every year is we go back in time, and we look at what we said for season before,and what we predicted what was going to happen in this season before, and that we judge ourselves on what we said. And then we put our hat, our Carnac hat. For those of you who remember the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, we put our Carnac hat on, and we say what's going to happen in the next six months. And so, Dwight, why don't you cover off on what was it that you said was supposed to happen in the last six months?And then we'll both judge whether or not that actually happened.

 

Dwight Brown: 18:26

Whether or not it happened. Yeah, my prediction before was that we were going to see a softening in the labor market. And we were going to see an uptick in unemployment. And the second part of my prediction revolved around the concept of quiet quitting and quiet firing also. You know, where companies,people, companies can't afford to fire people at this point. So they choose not to, but yet,they do a lot of marginalization of people within the organization. And so when I talk about quiet firing, that's that's kind of the concept that I'm talking about. So, David,you get to judge me. Did I make it or not?

 

David Turetsky: 19:07

Well, I definitely agree that quiet quitting and quiet firing are still a thing. And so I think you're still I think you're accurate on that. There had been layoffs, but the layoffs had been rather sparse here and there, where there has been weakness in the economy,especially in retail, we just saw this by I think Macy's and Costco came out with just recently, like the last couple days, came out with some dire predictions about their economic outlook. But the layoffs that have happened had been small layoffs, relatively speaking to the past. And so I think the concept of quiet quitting and quiet firing are still very accurate. I think they're still actually happening. And that would actually be a really good episode, Dwight, for us to work on with a CHRO or two. Talk about the how that's impacting an organization. And if you're a CHRO, and you want to be on the program, send us an email at HRdatalabs@Salary.com. And we'd love to talk to you about it. So I give you an A plus on that one, I think it's still, I think it's still a problem. And I think it's still something that,that most organizations are wrestling with. The engagement of their employees in a hard economic time, because it's still a hard economic time,right? With political and economic and social uncertainty,that it's still there. And, and as we've talked about, one of the problems is, and we're going to get into this my prediction,that with a new political election cycle coming up, that social and political part of our world is going to get tossed in the air again, and we're going to start to see divisions in the country and in our workforce.And that's gonna be that's gonna be bad.

 

Dwight Brown: 20:53

It's gonna be tough. Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 20:55

We'll get there in my predictions, we'll get there in my predictions. So I think for my predictions, I had two that I really focused on.One was that pay transparency would become a mature conversation, or more mature conversation. And I think to some extent, that's actually happening because of the states that have implemented have caused the states that surround them to actually start talking about the world of pay transparency, or at least the employers in those states that surround states that have pay transparency, have to talk about that. And so I think companies are actually starting to mature and come to the table and say,Yes, we have to do something about this. So I think I think,I don't know, I'll let you judge me, but I think I got that one.

 

Dwight Brown: 21:40

Oh, yeah, I think you definitely did.

 

David Turetsky: 21:42

Okay, well,thank you. I appreciate that.And the second one was that I said that because there was a new Congress after the midterms,that there was going to be more gridlock in Congress and stuff not getting done. And I think I can point to the negotiations for the debt ceiling that just happened, that that took them weeks, you know, we're facing a massive default on US debt,which would have completely crippled the economy, it would have caused us to stop paying our military, it would have caused us to stop paying Social Security, people would have lost their houses, and their livelihoods, would have gone out the window. And it took literally until like, where we just, they just signed the legislation from the Senate today, which is June 2, and they had I think, until June 5, for the default to actually happen.So you can't get more 11th 12th hour than that. And I'm gonna say I I'm really not surprised,because you have a very right wing Republican Party and a very left wing, Democratic Party who just couldn't come to the table and negotiate in good faith until it until they the hit hit the fan. You know what I mean?

 

Dwight Brown: 23:01

Yeah, but the funny thing is about the debt ceiling. I mean, how many times we've been through this is all this stuff that was going on in the news? I'm like, Yeah, ho hum. This is this a bunch of crap to focus on because we go through this every couple of years. We always manage to pull it out. Those in political seats know that if they don't pull it out, and make something happen,then they're going to be out of a job come next election.

 

David Turetsky: 23:27

But students history though, Dwight sorry to interrupt you, know that it actually has happened. That there have been times when we have gotten to the point where,you know, they have to push the push the rock a little bit.

 

Dwight Brown: 23:40

Shut down the government

 

David Turetsky: 23:41

They shut down the government. And that's actually happened.

 

Dwight Brown: 23:43

I do actually remember one of those happening.I want to say it was back, I want to say it was the 90s or the early 2000s.

 

David Turetsky: 23:49

It was in the2000s. Yeah, so it did happen.So it can happen. And the reason why this is really bad for the economy is think about how the pandemic caused the economy to just halt. And there was nothing good about that. Well, at least the government was funded to be able to support all the things to keep it going well.

 

Dwight Brown: 24:10

Yeah. And now we are where we are.

 

David Turetsky: 24:13

Right with the debt ceiling. That can't happen,because they're not allowed to spend $1.

 

Dwight Brown: 24:17

Right.

 

David Turetsky: 24:18

So that wouldn't have happened. And so it's real.So, anyways So I don't know, you judge me whether or not there was actually there is gridlock in Congress, but

 

Dwight Brown: 24:30

Oh, yeah, no, I definitely get that. Because,you know, I think I think of the debt ceiling thing is is just sort of random noise, but I totally give it to you. It certainly magnified the gridlock that was there too. But yeah,even absent that. Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 24:47

So how did I do Dwight?

 

Dwight Brown: 24:48

You got an A plus,man.

 

David Turetsky: 24:49

Oh, good. Okay.Well, you know, it was it was tenuous there for a little bit.

 

Dwight Brown: 24:54

A little nip and tuck there for a bit.

 

David Turetsky: 24:56

A little, yeah.Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, Man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck, we have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast or whatever is on your mind, go to Salary.com/HRDLconsulting, to schedule your FREE 30 minute call today.So Dwight, though, we're now coming to that time where now we have to make our predictions for the next six months. So this covers the period of June through basically December of2023. And obviously, we're coming into a political cycle,we're probably at the stage with the Fed where they're not going to raise rates anymore.Inflation is kind of under control. We're seeing prices come back down now. So what is it that you have as a prediction for HR, for the workforce, for the economy, for anything, what what are your predictions for the next six months?

 

Dwight Brown: 26:02

So I'm going to deviate from my my past themes for predictions which were more political and economic in nature. And I'm going to talk about trending. And that is with AI. It's amazing what the chat GPT thing did to the discourse on AI. I mean, we've been, even on this podcast, we've been talking about AI and HR since the beginning. And AI has definitely been there. But I think that I think the chat GPT and the fast forward that that put companies like Microsoft in,in the AI arena, I think it's really we're gonna see some tangible changes to the landscape, even within the next six months. I can't say exactly what those will be. But I do think that we're going to start to feel it in our technology,hopefully, in our ATSes, and our, our HRISes and those things, for those of us in the Human Resources arena. But I think we're going to, I think we're gonna see it in all facets of life. Now, here's an interesting thing that took place, I believe it was in the last week or two, there was a memorandum that was signed by the leaders of several of the tech companies about responsible AI. And they talked about the concept, I think fairly explicitly about the concept of extinction of human beings as a result of of AI, and how that was a definite danger if we didn't do responsible AI. And it's weird, because it sounds like something out of The Walking Dead or some sci fi movie, but

 

David Turetsky: 27:48

It's definitely like Terminator. Yeah.

 

Dwight Brown: 27:50

Right, exactly.So, you know, just the fact that they came to the table and the CEO of open AI was one of them who signed this, the fact that they're having to sign something like this, at this point, gives you a feel for what the true power of this is, you know, we can't just let it grow unchecked, that it, it could definitely have dire circumstances if it grows in the wrong direction. So anyway, my prediction is that we're going to see a whole lot of movement,we're going to see some movement over the next six months in terms of integration of of AI,more advanced AI into the technology that we use on an ongoing basis.

 

David Turetsky: 28:31

Love it. I think that's a great prediction. In fact, that was going to be one of the ones I was going to do.

 

Dwight Brown: 28:37

I stole yours!

 

David Turetsky: 28:39

You get to go first, it's okay, you know, what happens when you get to go first. But one thing I will say is that, if you look at cycles throughout history, of where significant innovations happened, whether it was the wheel, or whether it was the Industrial Revolution, steam,you know, all of those things were seen as dire consequences from the people who said, you know, look at what is. Whether it was a car on a road that would displace the world of horse and buggy. Whether it was trains that were revolutionizing bringing goods and services to different parts of the world and different parts of the countries. Whether it was you know, boats and canals that opened up trade and commerce between whether it was locations in the northeast, between Michigan and Canada, actually,and New York City, all of those things led to skepticism, right?Even the internet led the skepticism of you know, the downfall of the human race. And so I'm not judging AI in that context, as much now but we will definitely talk about it in six months. But what I'm definitely saying in terms of that is that AI is a foreseen consequence of building smart computers, and building smart programming languages that take advantage of the processing power that we have at our disposal. AI has been around for many years, in the world of computers. Our ability to utilize them as consumers is getting better because we're realizing how to actually talk to the AI, and how to ask the right questions. If you talk to Siri, in one way,you'll get a terrible response.If you talk to Siri in a different way, you're gonna get what you want. But it's in Siri's language, not in our language. And that's gonna get better over time. So I'm not trying to judge what you're saying, other than I completely support the hypothesis of your of your prediction.

 

Dwight Brown: 30:50

Yeah, it'll be interesting. I think the fact that they felt the need to come to the table and sign anything really speaks to exactly how powerful it now is, as opposed to before it used to be, let's integrate it as a competitive advantage. Now, it's, hey, this can really have far reaching implications for just society as a whole.

 

David Turetsky: 31:12

Absolutely.

 

Dwight Brown: 31:12

But we don't know what those are gonna be!

 

David Turetsky: 31:14

Well, In think we're gonna see some of that,especially as we go to HR tech,the HR tech conference, and we talk to the thought leaders and we see where it's gone from 2023to 20, or from 2022 to 2023. And where they think it's gonna go for 2024. So I see all that happening.

 

Dwight Brown: 31:33

Yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 31:33

Let's, let's now transition to my prediction. I think your your completed your predictions, it was gonna be the it's AI?

 

Dwight Brown: 31:40

You are correct,yeah.

 

David Turetsky: 31:41

Okay. So if I'm putting on my hat now, and looking out into the future, and using my powers of vision, for the next six months, I'm going to stay on track with pay transparency, that there are going to be more states that sign up for transparency,knowing full well, this is a election season, we're going to start to hear a lot of the political candidates coming out on both sides of the DEI spectrum. And I think pay transparency is going to be one of those things that gets more airtime because it deserves it.And because right now, we're disenfranchising too many damn people, without having the ability to know what pay should be. So all those states that are tangentially affected right now,because they don't have laws about it, but they're affected because their neighbors do,their neighboring states do. I think they're going to start to get on it and implement some pay transparency laws. So I think that my my specific prediction is the number of states that will introduce new pay transparency legislation will increase. And we're going to start to see more states in the next six months that either adopt it for 2024 or at least introduce it for 2024.

 

Dwight Brown: 32:58

Yeah, definitely.Yeah. There's so much of it out there. And I don't see how states couldn't adopt it at this point.

 

David Turetsky: 33:05

Well, I Well, so dude remember how there are some states where this is not top of their priority list? Right?Yeah, there's that. But But I will tell you that I agree with you, I think that that it should be the case where they should say this should be a priority.So I wish it was more. I will take one more smaller prediction. And this is an obvious one. So it's going to happen no matter what. But the political cycle is, is going to cause more social and political anxiety for employees. And I think engagement is going to get difficult in the fourth quarter of 2023, in the calendar fourth quarter of 2023, with all of the political cycle spinning up, and all of the all of the garbage on both sides, and the rhetoric happening at a fever pitch.Right. So unfortunately, I see more of that happening. I wish it could be less, but that's not going to be the case. So

 

Dwight Brown: 34:06

And I think especially in light of everything that we're seeing,you know, with the Donald Trump indictment, I think that's just going to amplify things more than the typical back and forth that we see with these sorts of things.

 

David Turetsky: 34:20

And unfortunately, it's multiple indictments. And I say,unfortunately, because I think that's going to cause a lot of political noise. Again, we're not, we don't talk politics on the HR Data Labs podcast, but when you're dealing with the world of human resources,unfortunately, you cannot break away from the fact that politics affects the working world and so.

 

Dwight Brown: 34:42

Yeah, cause it's not a judgment on either side that we're talking about here is just a reality of the political situation and the fact that it will impact.

 

David Turetsky: 34:51

Absolutely.So those are our predictions for the second six months of 2023.And then, you know, as I said,we're gonna go to the HR tech conference, we're going to learn a lot. And then hopefully, by the end of season six, which is our next season, we're going to learn a lot more about the world of HR and process and technology. I did want to end the podcast talking about some things we'd like to see for the podcast going forward for the next season. And I'll just throw this out there, Dwight, I'll go first, I think we're going to transition the purpose of the show from being around data and analytics, to just being more open to other HR topics as well.We've already gone there really.The origin story of the of the podcasts was always about how to utilize data and analytics in the world of business from an HR perspective. While we're always going to touch on data and analytics as part of that, I think we're going to acknowledge the fact that we've been talking a lot more about policy and process as well.

 

Dwight Brown: 35:52

Yeah, definitely.So no, I think that'll be,that'll be good. We're gonna need to expand the dialogue on these things.

 

David Turetsky: 36:00

I think we may actually do some fun, other episodes where we may take some tangential conversations,tangential to the heart of the show. But we may throw some extra episodes in here and there along the way in in season six,and potentially season seven, or maybe even starting in season seven. But we'll start planning them in season six. So a lot of fun stuff coming up. How about you? What are the things you'd like to see the show to go next year?

 

Dwight Brown: 36:28

I think you've hit on the things that that I'd like to see happen. You know, I'd like to expand the base of people who want to participate as people on the podcast. And I think we've got plenty of opportunity to be able to do that.

 

David Turetsky: 36:50

All right,Dwight. Well, I think that wraps up the season five finale,Episode 125 of the HR Data Labs podcast. Thank you very much,Dwight.

 

Dwight Brown: 37:01

Thank you, David.Looking forward to the next 125.

 

David Turetsky: 37:06

Oh, good Lord.Well, that'll at least take us a few seasons. So another 5seasons. So I think we've got it in us, but put it on the calendar.

 

Dwight Brown: 37:16

Yeah. Okay. We'll keep busting them out.

 

David Turetsky: 37:18

Absolutely.Well, thank you very much,Dwight. I appreciate you being a part of the show.

 

Dwight Brown: 37:23

Thank you for letting me be part of the show.It's good to be able to work with you on this.

 

David Turetsky: 37:28

We're partners on this, let's be honest.

 

Dwight Brown: 37:30

Definitely.

 

David Turetsky: 37:31

Alright. Well,that means you have to be more part of season six. So

 

Dwight Brown: 37:34

I gotta quit slacking!

 

David Turetsky: 37:37

You worked hard through that time, sir.

 

Dwight Brown: 37:39

Exactly.

 

David Turetsky: 37:40

You earned your keep. All right. Well, Dwight,thank you. And thank you all for listening. Take care and stay safe.

 

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